While attending North America’s first-ever M Festival at the Canadian Tire and Motorsport Park, our own Nico DeMattia sat down with the new CEO of BMW M, Markus Flasch, to talk about the state of affairs at M. Among many topics, Herr Flasch spoke briefly about the upcoming BMW M3 and M4. (Full interview here)
Without divulging many of the cars’ secrets – some of them already known to us – the M boss did confirm two things for us. Firstly, the G80 M3 and G82 M4 will have an all-wheel drive configuration, and secondly, there will be a manual transmission for the two cars.
“[]it’s a bit early to disclose all the details but something I want to highlight is that we will have a manual stick shift,” Flasch told us. “We have already disclosed we will have the option of four-wheel drive. We’ve not decided which variant, which system, but everything that’s on our current lineup; think of the M5; can be made available. The M3 and M4, I’ve driven the pre-production cars already and they’re fantastic.”
Furthermore, the new M Boss is a true car enthusiast, therefore, the manuals could be saved under his reign.
“Manual is very important,” added Flasch. “The manual stick shift is not a performance-bringer, because an automatic transmission is just faster, you can ask any race driver. But it gives the vehicle character and I kind of compare it to people who love mechanical watches; it isn’t more precise and it doesn’t have any advantage at all but it’s a character feature. So is a stick shift. ”
The G80 M3 won’t make its official debut until mid-2020, which means it will go on sale as a 2021 model, but when it does, it will be powered by the new S58 engine with 473 hp as-standard. There will also be a competition model available at launch and that will pack the same engine but with 503 hp.
This new BMW M3 will also be the first M3 in history to power all four wheels. According to our sources, there will be two models; a rear-wheel drive model and an all-wheel drive model; marking another first for the famed performance model. The rear-drive M3 will be available with either a manual gearbox or an eight-speed automatic, while the all-wheel drive car will be automatic only.
As for the M3 Competition, it will only be all-wheel drive and automatic.
They have paid attention! These cars will be great and more importantly, people will enjoy driving them. So what they aren’t as fast. People buy manuals to enjoy them, the analog feel and experience. Well done BMW.
Cool, I wish Sony made a record player “walkman”
#luddite
So don’t buy one. Something tells me you don’t have an M car anyhow. If you do, let me guess, it’s probably never seen the track.
I have a S62 powered car and I love the 6 speed manual. I’m also fortunate enough to own an AMG V8 but it’s an auto. Yeah, it’s fun but not nearly as engaging as the S62.
As for the Luddite comment, you’re speaking to a large segment. Not everyone wears a tells time with there phone these days. Why not just go hop in a Tesla? It’s faster.
I just sold my M4 last year, and no track. BFD. It was my daily driver of which a good portion of it was on the autobahn, have fun on that track. Little point of it in the US so I bought another BMW.
Little point in what in the US? To me and a lot of others, BMW’s are meant to be driven when they are in the M variant. I live close to a track and enjoy that kind of stuff so I may be a bit biased. You can’t see any of the limits or the performance of the car unless you take it there or speed caps unless you hit the autobahn.
If I was getting a highway cruiser that was meant to eat miles and be comfortable, AMG’s speak more to me versus an M car. My AMG, it does just that but will act out if I want it to. That said, I wouldn’t dare compare it to an M car in terms of handling from the factory.
At this point, every manufacturer makes cars that are plenty fast for the streets so what is the point of an M car if it doesn’t have soul, passion and make you smile? A DSG TDI is a fun car do drive but is it the same as an M or AMG, no.
You seem more like the type that loves the latest tech. That’s great but there is a lot of people who prefer the opposite of that or at the least, a little sprinkle of nostalgia while we can still get it. That’s all I’m trying to say. If you don’t care for it, drive your DCT, etc and have fun. Let the people that enjoy 3 pedals rejoice for a bit. Sooner or later, all these cars will be electric.
Hand cranked, too!
This is cold comfort, considering that they iced the manual for the G20 3 series. Many BMW fans don’t want to have to deal with M car prices and M car drama, while still being able to row their own on a tight, technical section of road.
I also disagree mightily with the statement that manuals “don’t have any advantage at all.” This is wrong. As these cars age, both the reliability and performance of ZF automatics go down, and they require more servicing. They have to have fluid changes every 60,000 miles, despite BMW’s contention that the transmission fluid is a “lifetime” fluid. The manual transmission is far easier on its lubricant since it isn’t dumping wet clutch material into it, and the gearbox will actually last the lifetime of the car with only a few clutch replacements.
An automatic transmission has always been the weakest point of any drivetrain. That hasn’t changed even with the ZF 8 speed.
The G20 3er will still retain a Manual, but only for the 318d and 320d. But yes, it is mostly gone…
I guess you have absolutely no clue about the technology. Of course a (the new ZF) automatic gearbox, is better for 99% of customers.
Very easy: people cant make any mistakes and so BMW can make it much more robust than a manual, where people can do wrong shifts etc. Manual cars always need clutch changes, do you really think that is better than an oil change?
I love the manual as well and will buy it as long as I can, but no one can ignore the fact, that this amazing ZF8 is the best choice for the big big majority of people.
The correct comparison is not between a clutch change and automatic transmission fluid change, but between a clutch change and replacing the automatic transmission when the internal wet clutches wear out. Manuals are more robust, and this becomes especially true with high mileage.
If your concern is about people shifting from 5th to 2nd and blowing the engine, then yes, people who do not know how to drive stick should not do so. They should let mommy computer change gears for them since they are incomplete drivers.
I have a ZF 8 speed in my 328d with 80,000 miles, and it has not aged well despite a fluid change. The transmission is slow to change gears when cold. The worst part is that there can be a noticeable lag engaging 1st from a stop, which I have to do every time I leave my house in order to turn on to a major road. Undue delay here is a safety hazard.
I wish that BMW had offered the diesel in the United States with the 6 speed. If I can possibly make it happen, I intend to get rid of the automatic and put in a manual myself, even to the point of changing engine computers. This would also give me a chance to replace the timing chain guides at the rear of the engine and buy years of smooth operation.
“The transmission is slow to change gears when cold.”
Wow, here is a news flash! AT do not work well with cold fluids. Neither do manuals, bt the way.
The concept of operating temperature ranges is lost on many “enthusiasts.”
Of course I do not expect bang bang shifts with cold fluid. I baby the transmission until it heats up.
But note my example about dangerous delays engaging 1st from a dead stop with the automatic. This will not happen with a manual as 1st is already engaged at the stop sign with the clutch pedal on the floor. When the clutch is engaged, the car will accelerate promptly for a timely merge into traffic.
An immediate engagement of 1st is more important than an almost imperceptible wait for the synchronizers when shifting from 1st to 2nd. I’ve never driven a manual in good working order that has given me as much cold delay as an automatic.
I’ll close with a question. I put my car on stands to do all the work on it myself. I haven’t been to a garage (for anything except new tires) since my 50,000 mile BMW service plan ran out. Can you say the same?
No, I only do some of the work myself.
Operating temperature is not understood by many owners.
From my own experience I couldn’t disagree more.
I had several BMW manuals over the last 2 decades. My last one was a 330i xDrive E90 with the 6-speed manual (ZF GS6-37).
This was the worst manual gearbox I ever had. Poor shiftability, especially under cold conditions in low gears. Shifting from 1st to 2nd and vice verce was no fun. Very often I had to disengage the clutch in between the shifting. This gearbox seems to be a fautly design in terms of syncronisation.
Additionally I had problems with a worn dual-mass flywheel (a component which doesn exist in Cars with AT) which made noises and clunks.
Clutch pluck (slip-stick of the clutch) is also very known to every BMW manual driver.
So the last years I had less and less fun with the manual.
Now I own a F32 438i xDrive with the excellent ZF8HP with over 200k km on the gauge without having any issues at all. Chaning transmission oil every 100k km is not a big deal compared to the annoying issues I had with the manual which I couldn’t overcome without replacing the whole gearbox plus DMF plus clutch! You can imagine the costs…
ATF mechanical replacement before it starts changing color is conducive to long life. Adding an auxiliary ATF cooler will reap similar benefits. The in radiator heat exchanger is to heat the ATF early upon a cold start, not to cool it under heavy loads.
is the m3 still going to be unveiled in september’s frankfurt auto show?
No. Next year
damn