E30 M3 vs. 1///M: Why The Comparison?

1M | September 9th, 2010 by 70
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In this day and age, people LOVE to compare anything to everything. It’s a simple trend that we’ve had for, well, as long as I’ve …

In this day and age, people LOVE to compare anything to everything. It’s a simple trend that we’ve had for, well, as long as I’ve been alive, and then some. And now it’s come to an interesting crossroads with BMW fans. The new 1M, is it a spiritual successor to the E30 M3? Or is it just BMW’s way of starting the small super car trend all over again?

Let’s think about it for a moment.

The reason I believe people are comparing the E30 M3 to the new 1M is simply due to size. BMW seems to want to get back to basics with this car. However, as we all know, it’s impossible to make a small sports car like the E30 again, due to safety standards and other engineering motives.

E30 M3 vs. 1///M: Why The Comparison?

But one reason I will certainly compare it is the ideology. Some of the best automotive products and brands come in small packages: look at MINI, the original Mini, the 1-Series’ popularity and fame all over the world. It’s funny how size can change peoples’ minds for better or worse.

Luckily with the 1M, it’ll turn the BMW world upside down, or at least we believe so. People won’t expect, nor will they understand a 1-Series M car that can go faster through turns than an M3, have less understeer (hopefully), and at the same time cost a bit less.

The E30 M3 isn’t necessarily the best ///M to date. A lot of people just say that because it’s easy to brand a car the best that had no competition. But at the same time, it very well could have been the best for the simple fact that it was all manual. There wasn’t a computer monitoring the steering, the brakes, the gas pedal, and there especially wasn’t a computer telling your gearbox what your left foot and right hand can do.

E30 M3 vs. 1///M: Why The Comparison?

The biggest reason it’s probably the best is that it took what the M5 and M6 had done and was so much different, but so much more affordable. It was an all-purpose sports car for street and track. It wasn’t a GT or Super Sedan. It was a tiny-sports car with a 4-banger that could pump out near super car horsepower when tuned. It could smack any car in the face on the track, then drive home.

The E30 M3 came to define what people love about BMWs: The Ultimate Driving Machine, with the Joy of Driving attached to the gearbox and steering wheel. It’s what made the idea that you could drive a BMW to the track, wax the competition, and then drive home with time to spare before you had to go watch your son play in the inter-league soccer finals at the tender age of 8. No need to miss a track day nor a special period in your childrens’ lives.  Hooray for BMW Power.

Maybe this is what the next generation of ///M cars are meant to be? This could be the purpose of the 1M. It’s affordable enough for your wife to allow you to have it, with a big enough back seat and boot to carry your kids to school, and still get you to work on time. This is where BMW does it best. Yes, and this is where the 1M will be the newest E30 M3.

One area where the 1M will never be able to compete with the E30 M3 is its “exoticness”. If you can find a good E30 M3, you can put a down payment on a brand new 328i. If you find a great one, you can pretty much buy a new 1M. The M3 was the start of making ///M cars to be the best handling sports cars for everyday use in the world, and hopefully the 1M will only take that perfection five steps further.

E30 M3 vs. 1///M: Why The Comparison?

With that said, where the 1M will possibly be better than any ///M before it, is its simplicity. It’s small, with more simple technologies (again, hopefully) than the more dominant M cars these days. But when I’ve thought about it, this ///M seems to be marketed by BMW to the simple sporting customer already. They’ve said whatever, and everyone will automatically take what they did or didn’t say and turn it into God only knows what.

Think about it, though, who cares why BMW is making it, or how much they’re going to charge? The 135i is already one of the most fun BMWs in a really long time. How can the ///M version take that downhill? I, for one, believe it may even be better than the M3.

Wouldn’t it be interesting if the 1M turned out to be a new chapter in BMW’s book? We’ve had two iterations of the M6, four of the M5 (soon to be five) and four generations of the M3.

The 1M is not just a new take on anything, especially not the E30 M3. No, it’s better than that. It’s a new beginning. BMW can’t start anew with their other Ms. They have to make them bigger and better each time. The 1M is its own new project. And with that, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they try and keep it a similar size and with fewer technology, but instead, more human power and straight grunt.

As a final side note: What if BMW had named it the M1? Would it be a problem?

To some, yes, but to me? Absolutely not.

I’d love for it to be called the M1, because it’s the spiritual successor to the M1′s original purity and harder edged ///M power and performance. It was ///Ms first try, and now the new M1 is their retry at original glory. Praise the car, the name and the small ingeniousness that is the new M1. So it looks nothing like it. It won’t be designed by the Italians. I understand why many care, but to me, so long as it’s as good as it seems, they can call it whatever they want.

E30 M3 vs. 1///M: Why The Comparison?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1497041056 Daniel Hoang

    It did had compitition. 190E Cosworth, Nissan 300SX and 240SX, Toyota Supra, Mazda RX-7 ?

  • http://www.bimmerboost.com BimmerBoost.com

    Are you serious with no problem calling it an M1? You wouldn’t have a problem with that? Josh, no real BMW enthusiast would say that, please read this: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthread.php?t=1915

    This isn’t a spiritual successor to the M1, it has nothing to do with it. This car isn’t pure, it is a parts bin car. This car will not have the soul of real M cars and simply will never be a real M. It does not even deserve to be mentioned with the E30 M3 which is an icon. You are heaping praise on it that it has not earned and does not deserve.

    • 1Mc

      Absolute rubbish – this car is made by M and uses M3 parts because it already shares the M3 platform. That doesn’t mean it isn’t pure.

      If anything the rawness and driver orientated feel of this car makes it more pure than any of the big M cars like the M5, M6, x5M x6M. Even the M3.

      The 1M is BMW coming home. About goddamn time.

      • http://www.bimmerboost.com BimmerBoost.com

        Not absolutely rubbish at all. This car abandons aspects which have been M staples for decades. It isn’t about coming home, it is about leaving home. It also will never be an E30, this car will be about the same weight as an E46. The e30 was lightweight, raw, with NA response from the beautiful S14 4 cylinder.

        M sold out, and you are buying it.

        • 1Mc

          Segler has been anti-hyping the car, so there’s very little to buy.

          The fact is we wanted this M built before M had a mandate for it. They didn’t need to sell it. The market was already there and waiting, sick sore and tired of the heavy larger M356′s.

          The M coupe was indeed wonderful, now we get that same rawness, but with back seats. Phenomenal. I cannot wait. Anyone buying a 1M over an M3 is definitely a true M enthusiast.

          • http://www.bimmerboost.com BimmerBoost.com

            Anti-Hyping? What do you think calling press around the glove to show part of an uncovered fender is? Anti-hype? LOL

            Who is sick and sore of the M3? You realize the M3 GTS will likely be lighter than this? Not to mention more focused, with better response from a real M motor?

            This is a 135, with different brakes, an LSD, and a new tune. Yawn.

            Maybe the real M enthusiast is still driving his E46 CSL? Perhaps his E30 EVO M3? This car is the least impressive M car to come out, sharing a drivetrain with base cars and just using parts from the M3 (brakes, diff) does not make it an M.

          • 1Mc

            Yes anti-hyping. They’ve played down this car continually by telling us what it won’t be, or won’t have.

            Yes they showed a few aging yanks a wheel and a headlamp. That really doesn’t amount to hype in the age of mass media marketing techniques.

    • Lariv

      The 1M is definitely a pure M car. The 1M is a future classic in the making and will someday become a motoring icon. Also the 1M is more of an M car than the X5M or X6M and probably most other M cars because like the original M3 Evo it is driver orientated and will be more handling focused rather than being another fast car with a big turbocharged engine like the X5M and X6M.

      • http://www.bimmerboost.com BimmerBoost.com

        How is it a pure M car? What is with all this praise for a car we don’t even have the full specs for? If they just took a motor they already had and just added more boost, that isn’t pure or good, it is a cheap way out. This is another fast BMW with a turbocharged engine, it won’t have the soul of an E30 M3.

        • 1Mc

          You obviously don’t know your BMW history. This is not the first M to not have a custom produced engine, nor are turbos anything new for BMW.

          You don’t define M. What M make and the board passes is an M car, pure. If you don’t like it, it doesn’t make one spec of difference. It’s still an M. And each M is phenomenal in it’s own way.

          This just might be the best of them all however.

          • thomas noisewater

            name another M car, built before 2004, that shared its drivetrain with a standard production BMW? And don’t try to tell me that the S50 or the S52 are the same as the M50, because they are not.

            Also, your comment that this might be the ‘best of them all’ is ludicrous. Completely ludicrous. Do you work for BMW PR?

            You are right though – what the board passes becomes an M car. Nowadays. It used to be that the driving experience made the M car. Now it’s the board passing a product that it can sell at a markup.

          • http://www.bimmerboost.com BimmerBoost.com

            I know my history all too well, you do not, which is why you are patting BMW on the back for selling out.

            Considering I am an M customer and have been for a decade, I know what I want and you do not speak for me. I believe replies are here so you can voice your opinion, if you don’t like that, tough.

            This is the first M car to have a turbo motor. The only other turbo in BMW’s history is the 2002. If you actually did know your BMW history you would know that BMW called forced induction a short cut. That is why we had over 30 years of M cars without turbos. You just skipping 3 decades?

            This won’t be the best of them, it does not deserve to be mentioned with the best like the naturally aspirated E30 M3 EVO III that has earned its place among the best. Please stop pandering to BMW, it is embarrassing for us real enthusiasts.

          • thomas noisewater

            they also made a turbo 7 Series in the 80′s, but it’s pretty rare.

          • Auday

            So if they make a new fwd mini van
            And slap an M on it and the board approves it it’s still good? Period?

            How about an M bus? An M fridge? If the all customers are blindly loyal like you and will buy whatever they give you blindly then the board would approve anything as long as it makes them money, we might even see M condoms soon

          • 1Mc

            Bimmerboost, I am glad you finally realise that drawing the goalposts where you please amounts to total nonsense, or being ‘all over the place’ as you put it.

            Sometimes a good hard look in the mirror is all that’s needed.

        • 1Mc

          You don’t choose the goalposts I’m sorry to burst your bubble. I can choose to call your 30 years of M cars frauds – they were luxury cars which were converted into sports wannabes unlike the first Real M1. Everything after that was a bad joke. But I am not the authority on what makes an M car, and either are you.

          To even try and berate M for putting together a smaller, lighter M car is absolutely incomprehensible. It is the star of the lineup for any real enthusiast. Big heavy cars were not BMW’s history, did you forget that in your skewed 30 year speech?

          M cars will go turbo from now. If you don’t like it, you can twaddle off to some other group and talk all the elitist tripe you like.

          Like Segler said, ‘No Dogma’. If you don’t know what that means, basically it translates to, ‘sh*t-talkers, you’re not wanted here’.

          • thomas noisewater

            first of all, you are calling the 1 Series light – it’s not light. the 135 weights 3,300 lbs. That’s what a new Corvette weighs. Add in the additional suspension, subtract a bit for any lightweight components and it’s still well over 3,000 lbs. It weighs almost what my E34 weighs.

            Second, the cars are going turbo because BMW has to balance high horsepower with small displacement so they can maintain corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards. Or they can’t sell cars in the U.S. That is the only reason the M cars are going turbo. The ONLY reason.

            Third, I actually drive on the track. I have a track car and a street car. I am an enthusiasts, member of the BMWCCA, etc. Do you even have a license?

            The only dogma here is your unwavering acceptance of BMW’s publicity campaigns. You are the one spouting the BMW dogma and drinking the BMW koolaid. You say none of us have ever driven the 1M, but you yourself have already called it the best M car ever, and the star of the lineup. Wow.

          • 1Mc

            No, the only dogma here is your attempt at defining M to your rules. Look how eager you are to prove your elitism.

            I have this, I have that. Are you trying to chat me up? Because 1. I don’t have a pair of t*ts. 2. It would take more than a track license that we get in the EU within one day of tracking and a moron-test to get to impress me even if I did have a pair of t*ts.

            But well done on joining a club. That gives you all the authority you need to dictate to M.

            Take a look at yourself.

          • thomas noisewater

            1Mc – I don’t think you actually have a car at all. Would that be a reasonable conclusion to draw from your antics?

          • http://www.bimmerboost.com BimmerBoost.com

            What? 30 years of M cars frauds? No offense, but you are all over the place and now not even making sense. You are praising a car not even out and putting it on a pedestal that 30 years of M cars occupy? Huh?

            This car isn’t that light. We are talking E46 weight, what is so light about? I’m berating M for selling out. The E30 is lighter than this car ever will be. M has made heavy cars, they are based on sport sedans after all. They still are the lightest in their class though, the E92 M3 is.

            Yes, M cars will go turbo from now on and I think I realize that, take a look at the name posting. That does not mean we should just dismiss an entire era and not be critical of BMW. Do you just accept everything they do blindly? Why can’t you think for yourself? It seems bmw can put an M badge on any parts bin car and you will praise it, just sad.

        • 1Mc

          The 1M does not share it’s drivetrain with another model – it’s a hybrid drivetrain, that’s already been leaked. Even if it wasn’t, would it make the car not an M?

          Show me the M rule book. Oh that’s right there isn’t one. Just some nonces talking a lot of nonsense.

          Keep at it M. This is the right direction. Smaller, lighter, greener. Focus on feel, not hp.

          • thomas noisewater

            The BMW 1M is NOT a hybrid! Where the hell did you get that information from? That’s hilarious!

            BTW – Smaller, lighter, greener? M? X5M, X6M? You are my new favourite comedian, 1Mc.

          • 1Mc

            It’s a hybrid drivetrain, hybrid doesn’t mean electric car. Thanks for showing us the limits to your technical knowledge.

            This is not a straight out transplant. Maybe you got some catching up to do.

            The 1M isn’t released yet, the x6/5Ms precede that, so it seems your comprehension is as in depth as your technical knowledge displayed above.

          • thomas noisewater

            where did I say electric?

            for the purposes of discussing automotive drivetrains, hybrid means two different power sources – typically, a traditional gasoline or diesel internal combustion engine, combined with an alternative power source. that’s what it means. it’s not open to interpretation.

          • Auday

            1mc, there has been nothing that suggests the 1m will have any additional electric motor of any sort so no it’s not hybrid, it might have the start- stop technology though.
            Cool down and dont get emotional and personal about it, many people here are enthusiasts and knowledgable about BMW as you are so hold your horses and try some useful conversation instead of personal attacks.

          • 1Mc

            No, that’s what a hybrid drivetrain is, in a hybrid car.

            Less wiki, and more rl.

          • thomas noisewater

            1Mc – I write about cars for a living, so I don’t need to be schooled by you when it comes to technical definitions.

            I also own a BMW – do you own a BMW? What do you drive?

          • 1Mc

            Oh Thomas, yes you do need schooled. The level of journalism these days is piss poor. Thanks for adding to the problem.

          • thomas noisewater

            you are right, I should probably just copy/paste from the well-informed comments I find on blogs across the Internet. Easier than actual research or deriving opinions from experience.

  • paul

    i dont thinks its just down to the size Josh. Sure it plays a part but i believe its more down to history. The original M3 was a brilliant car, it defined a market segment and really pushed bmw forward as a serious sport orientated manufacterer. I believe people at bmw have high hopes this car will do the same for bmw as the E30 M3 did back in its day (and even today!!). I dont believe this car will be as big as the E30 was and still is today. I dought this new 1M1 will cost as much as an E30 M3 does 30 years after it was launched but none the less I think it can only be a good product – if they got it right of course – for bmw specially after all the critics regarding bmw going soft – take the Z4, new 5er, GT, and going fwd, etc – to bring back that image that bmw are (were?) first and foremost a sporty orientated brand. Also with Audi trying, and I stress the trying, to take that crown from bmw – despite the brilliant R8 (when bmw, when a competitor? ur 4 years late!) i believe they have really high expectations for the small sporty car. Lets see what the future brings

  • paul

    btw its a shame it doesnt sound better cause it looks brilliant and I would get one if i didnt have a CSL already.

  • paul

    but the that airbox on the CSL is addictive…honest. I get withdrawll symptoms if i dont rev it for a week!

  • thomas noisewater

    to say that it is “impossible to make a small sports car like the E30 again, due to safety standards and other engineering motives” is completely disingenuous.

    The 2010 Mazda Miata weighs 200 lbs more than the 90′s edition of the car. In fact, it weighs only 2,500 lbs compared to around 2,100 – 2,200 for the very first edition of the Miata, which came out in 1989.

    How is it possible that Mazda has somehow defied the odds and maintained the lighweight character of the Miata? Is it because they somehow have better engineering talent than BMW? No, it is because the brand has remained true to the original focus of the Miata – a light sports car. The vehicle is far safer than the original, and actually more comfortable, but not at the expense of lightness. It’s even significantly more powerful.

    BMW, on the other hand, has not focused on building elegant, lightweight sports cars in some time. The market for BMW is luxury and prestige, which means more attention paid to horsepower output, technological gadgets and comfort features and high end electronics – at the expense of curb weight.

    So, in summary – please don’t make it sound like the era of the E30 is out of reach for BMW. BMW has no interest in building another E30 – it’s simply not what they do anymore. They have chosen a different, heavier path, and they chose it quite some time ago. Don’t mislead readers that it’s due to any other factors.

    • L1ndja

      what makes bmw different to mazda is that bmw is the leading car company when it comes to green. ITs the greenest of all even though it is one of the mos luxurious and also sportiest brands.
      Those efficient dynamics programs im sure make tha car at least 100-150kg heavier.

      • thomas noisewater

        are you serious? are you claiming that producing a heavier car that uses more materials and consumes more fuel is somehow greener than producing a lightweight car?

        bmw is far, far from the greenest brand on the planet. I am a BMW owner – but take off the blue and white colored glasses and take a closer look at your claim. BMW is actually going to have a lot of trouble meeting CAFE requirements in 2015-2016 due to the number of gas guzzlers in the lineup.

        • http://www.facebook.com/DeviateAE Lee Kaldenbach

          Thank you! There aren’t enough of us out there these days who can look at things from an objective angle.

          A lightweight, pure sports car is within reach, as Thomas said. Many other companies are doing it and meeting today’s emissions/safety standards. Do those standards contribute to the bloating of the modern car? Absolutely. Are they the only attribute that caused it? Absolutely not. Our desire for bigger/better/more/softer/wider/etc is the main issue here that car dealers have to contend with.

          If BMW today released the E30 M3, some people would love it. Most would not. Most would walk through the dealership’s parking lot, see it and ask the salesman “WTF is that hunk of crap? Are you guys building cars in Mexico now?”

          BMW’s appeal has changed. Some of us are still hanging on to the BMW of yesteryear hoping in vain that it’ll reappear as some stripped-down, <3000lb fun car. Some of us realized a while back, though, that this was futile and have moved on to other cars that do fulfill our desire for simplicity and tossability.

          • 1Mc

            Where is the proof that a car built to carry rear passengers can be built at the same weight it could a decade ago in today’s regulations?

          • thomas noisewater

            1Mc, you are a genius, I admit it, but the Porsche 911 can carry rear passengers. But then of course, you knew that.

          • thomas noisewater
          • 1Mc

            Oh no, I take my hat off to you. The genius is you. Token 911 seats are indeed directly comparable to the M3/1M.

            If you want to talk about Porsche doing a 2+2, you best not mention the Panamera – wouldn’t want to bring up it’s weight now would we.

            No, best to try and peg the 911 as a 2+2 daily driver and pretend you’re a ‘car blogger’ to convince us that you’re worth listening to.

          • thomas noisewater

            keep stretching the goal posts as far as your want – both the 1 series and the 911 are 2+2. sorry you got called out and shown up. thanks for playing.

          • thomas noisewater

            oh, and if you want another example, the 1999 Ford Mustang GT weighs 3,200 lbs. The 2010 Ford Mustang GT weighs 3,400 lbs. So a gain of 400 lbs over 11 years. Last I checked it has a back seat too.

          • thomas noisewater

            ha – i fail at math. That’s a gain of 200 lbs over 11 years.

        • 1Mc

          Hilarious. This guy actually thinks a 911 is a real 2+2.

          • Auday

            From Wiki: “The term 2+2 (pronounced “two plus two”) is a phrase used to describe the configuration of a car with seating for two passengers in the front, plus two smaller seats for occasional passengers (or children) in the rear.”

            How old are you?

  • thomas noisewater

    I also find it amazing that you claim that the M edition of the 1 Series could be ‘better’ than any previous M car due to the ‘simplicity’. Nothing says simple like a turbocharged engine.

    • Auday

      Josh, your article is well written but unfortunately it just goes along with BMW’s hype and marketing.You skipped through the most important points, the weight and the engine.

      Let me put my personal speculation here. Why did BMW make this car?

      * Is it to go back to roughness and pureness of the E30M3?

      well in this case, they would make it 200kg lighter by using light weight materials, carbon fibre roof, manual light seats, manual windows, and maybe a simple basic light weight radio with no iDrive. And also they would have answered the criticism by keeping the car naturally aspirated, the S54 would be great, but if it’s too old for production, the S65 would be even better.

      * Is it to go along with the evil plan of expanding the M-brand market and making it main stream? and also as a life injection to sell few more 1 series before the end of the cycle? (very common for BMW to do but it used to come as fancy sort of packages now they are not shy of throwing a whole M-Badge on it.

      This is looks more like it, the car has nothing more than stiffer suspension, M-Wheels and some body kits modified. This is not how the M-Cars are done, well at least before they slapped the M-Badge on the X5/X6 cars.

      Hey how is this for BMW new motto: “Nothing is sacred as long as we make money”

      • 1Mc

        One thing is certain, that none of you have driven the 1M – which means, you’re hating on it.

        Which means none of you amount to anything more that wannabe elitists.

        Find a new hobby. M is coming home, whether you lot like it or not.

        • http://www.bimmerboost.com BimmerBoost.com

          Yes, all these people are obviously just hating on it. Guess what, you haven’t driven it either.

          However, we do know it is turbocharged and we do know the general specs. We also know this isn’t exactly a lightweight car. This isn’t coming home, this is leaving home. That is what you don’t get.

          The criticism is fair and accurate, unfortunately you aren’t handling it well. The comments made by Auday are spot on, BMW cares more about making money off M now than the principles it stood for. This car doesn’t belong in the same sentence as an E30 EVO, E46 CSL, or M3 GTS for that matter.

          Hopefully some day you can be an M owner, like the people posting, instead of a fanboy.

  • Tavi

    Josh,

    First let me say that I still have two E30 M3s, one of them an original Sport Evolution. I currently have an E46 M3 and have had US and Euro E36 M3s.

    For me there have never been and will never be a replacement for the E30 M3. It sounds like a bold statement but I simply say this because of the reasoning why BMW built the E30 M3.

    As we all know it was to compete in the DTM back in the late 80s so BMW had to built an homologation car that required at least 5,000 units produced for the base model and 500 of each evolution version. (EvoI, EvoII, Sport Evolution)

    None of the subsequent generations of the M3 was designed and built with racing purpose as the first goal. That doesn’t means E36s, E46s and E92s are not good/fast cars, is just that their main purpose in life wasn’t racing, period. And yes, I do have taken the E30 M3 to the track, being open course or auto-x, so I know what track time means for a dual purpose car like the M3.

    That being said I think BMW is trying to please too many different types of people at the same time which is a risky proposition since it dilutes the core image of the brand (eg: X5/6 M). The subsequent M3s are very good daily drivers and perform well at the track but some of the purity and fun factor the E30 M3 was lost during the generational evolution process. That’s why many people keep saying, including journalists, that the E30 M3 is still more fun to drive even though is not as fast as later incarnations.

    Now, about the 1M…. Will it be fast ?, I’m sure it’ll be. Will it be as fun as the E30 M3 ??, not sure… Part of the fun of the original M3 is it’s simplicity/lightness which the 1M is probably not going to be. There are way too many systems and “stuff” that BMW has added during all these years that will make this car not simple, including weight.

    Granted that cars nowadays have more “stuff” that adds weight because of safety and regulations, but some other brands have done way much better in that aspect compared to BMW, eg, Porsche, Lotus. which means it can be done nowadays.

    The M3 has gained 1,000 lbs over the years which is a shame in my opinion. To puts things in perspective on what others have said, here are some details on the weight, HP, MPG and dimensions of the M3 over the years compared to the regular 911:

    BMW M3:
    E30: 2,740 pounds, 192 HP, 17/29 mpg, L=171″,W=66.1″
    E36: 3,219 pounds, 240 HP, 19/26 mpg, L=174.5″, W=67.3″
    E46: 3,415 pounds, 333 HP, 16/24 mpg, L=176.8″, W=70.1″
    E92: 3,704 pounds, 414 HP, 14/20 mpg, L=180.3″, W=70.2″

    Porsche 911 (base):
    964: 3,031 pounds, 247 HP, 17/25 mpg, L=168″, W=65″
    993: 3,064 pounds, 282 HP, 17/25 mpg, L=167.1″, W=68.3″
    996: 2,910 pounds, 296 HP, 19/28 mpg, L=174.4″, W=69.5″
    997: 3,075 pounds, 325 HP, 18/26 mpg, L=175.6″, W=72.9″
    GT3: 3,075 pounds, 435 HP, 14/21 mpg
    (*)

    Yes, newer M3s are more comfortable as a daily driver but I drove an E30 M3 for many years as a daily driver and I was fine doing it.

    I know BMW is here to make money and improve their revenue. They have done that by adding more models that appeal to a broader audience, but in doing that they are also diluting some of the core/original values of the brand in my opinion. They can very well built a hardcore car like a newer E30 M3 and still make other cars that appeal to the masses. In my opinion BMW NA keeps on making mistakes in this market and also by wrongly influencing BMW AG, eg, influencing to build the X5/6 M, not bringing the 320d and 5 door 1 series and reducing the wagon options to mention a few.

    Some will say enthusiast like us doesn’t make the bulk of BMW sales but many of us have not only bought hardcore BMWs for us, but we also buy regular BMWs for our immediate family and usually recommends them to friends, so that counts for some volume too, which hasn’t probably been measured properly.

    If BMW is not careful they’ll keep on diluting the brand so their market base will either reduce or shift. Maybe that’s ok for their managment and shareholders, but it might not be good enough for us.

    At the end I will give the 1M a try, but for sure that doesn’t mean I’m going to replace the Sport Evolution with it…. Heck, I could take my family for a somewhat long trip on an E30 M3 since I’ve done it before… not sure if it’ll be as confortable in the back seats as a 1M since I believe the legroom in the back is smaller than on an E30 M3… at least on a 1 series convertible I saw.

    Happy ///M motoring…

    (*) Sources: Roundel magazine, wikipedia, http://www.porsche.com

    • Auday

      Well said Tavi!

    • 1Mc

      The problem with comparing Porsche 911′s and Mazda roadsters is that BMW make 2+2s. These cars aren’t directly comparable – if someone could show a 2+2 that has managed to keep it’s weight as low as it was a decade ago then I’d be convinced that BMW could be saving a lot more weight, and not just a little more weight.

      • thomas noisewater

        umm,….the Porsche 911 is a 2+2. It seats four.

      • Tavi

        I guess you’re missing the point. Neither the 911 nor the M3 have changed configuration in their seating arrangement. That means it doesn’t matter if the back seats of a 911 are usable or not since the basic layout of the car is still the same. Also, you can see from the numbers I posted they both have grown in length so that means neither car have gone smaller.

        With that said this means that Porsche have done a far better job of keeping the weight down while adding comfort and safety stuff, regardless of the 2+2 configuration, or lack thereof, of each car.

        • thomas noisewater

          Don’t bother Tavi. He clearly has no idea what he is talking about, and will grasp at any straw he can in order to make his argument.

        • 1Mc

          The 911 is focused on being a sports car. The M3 is derived form a luxury saloon/coupe.

          Massive difference. Like I said earlier – M cars are not out and out sports cars. They are two cars in one. That means added weight.

  • Auday

    1Mc, you are a hardcore enthusiast and you obviously know a lot about BMWs and M cars. But people you are debating are discussing a different aspect of things, lets say they have a different language of analyzing and judging things than yours. So give us a pause, this is becoming very noisy. cheers

    • 1Mc

      Auday, and I’ll quote you directly,

      “So if they make a new fwd mini van
      And slap an M on it and the board approves it it’s still good? Period?”

      Is this the sort of language you’d like to continue in? The criticisms of the 1M just don’t hold their weight when put into context. No-one has shown a directly comparable car that has low weight and the same build quality you’d expect of a BMW.

      We have 911s and Mazda Mx5′s – really, if we’re going to take shots at the 1M, we need a modern medium to get the ball rolling.

      But taking pot-shots at what’s going to be a cracking M, the M that’s going back a step which is what we all want seems bizarre.

      • thomas noisewater

        wow, with each ensuing post you just keep revealing how little you know what you are talking about. it’s beyond entertaining at this point. At this point, it appears as though you have abandoned almost every rational framework for discussion. It’s DaDa-esque – congratulations.

        • 1Mc

          More pot-shots with no actual argument. To be expected when the serious questions get asked.

          1. Where is the directly comparable lightweight, modern car with BMW’s build quality to reference the criticisms levelled at the 1M.

          2. How can a 911 that’s focused on being a lightweight sports car with token rear seats barely able to fit a small child be compared in terms of weight to a M3 that’s derived from a saloon/coupe 2+2 luxury 3 series?

          But go back to pretending you have something sensible to add.

          • Auday

            1Mc, cool and fair enough, I see your points, let’s move on

  • 1Mc

    I have to go do some push-ups now so I can beat thomas’ ass when I meet him irl.

    • thomas noisewater

      very mature. keep it coming, it helps all of your points.

      • http://www.bimmerboost.com BimmerBoost.com

        I think people see it, a shame he is allowed to continue especially when his posts degenerate into meaningless physical threats.

        • 1Mc

          Wise up and get a sense of humour. Push-ups? You took that seriously?

          The lack of wit from the 1M haters has no end.

    • http://www.bimmerboost.com BimmerBoost.com

      People should not waste their time speaking with you, this is behavior that does not belong in what should be a debate. You can’t seem to handle it and I can’t help but get the impression you are just an angry child. Intelligent debate is not something you are capable of being a part of.

      • 1Mc

        I take it irony is your only strong point. Neither you not your alter-ego have been able to handle the dissection of your 1M hate.

        You have instead had to find any wiggle room you can. You have a feeble mind if you took that comment earlier seriously.

        Unlike you, I have a sense of humour – it’s called maturity. The difference between us I can have a debate and still have a laugh at the end of it, wheras clearly you’re uptight.

        Carry on, clearly your criticisms have been shown to be watery, self-righteous garbage, and I’m happy to continue exposing that.

        • 1Mc

          So where were we. Lets recap.

          Apparently.
          The 911 is a light sports car able to carry 4 adults. And Bimmerboost has a rule book on what is required to make an M car.

          Happy trolling!

          • 507love

            You are the greatest BMW troll I have ever met even better than Car and Driver.

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