There’s a possibility that the next-generation BMW M3, in its rear-wheel drive/manual gearbox spec, could be the best road-going M3 yet. Before you grab your pitchforks and torches and punch my address into Waze, let me explain. Dubbed ‘G80‘, the next-gen BMW M3 will be a very interesting car and one that has immense potential to be an all-time great. It will be based off of the G20-generation 3 Series chassis, which is probably the best 3 Series chassis since the E46-generation. In fact, it’s probably the best 3 Series chassis yet, as it’s far more rigid, better balanced and more capable than any 3er before it. So right off the bat, the G80 M3 will have really good bones.
Then there’s the engine. Powering the next-gen BMW M3 will be the brand’s new S58 engine. It’s a 3.0 liter twin-turbocharged inline-six, born from the absolutely brilliant B58 engine. It’s also the same engine that powers the X3 M, a car that we love. In the X3 M, the S58 is superb, with shocking power delivery, silky smooth operation and a great noise. In standard M3-spec, with a manual gearbox and rear-wheel drive, the S58 engine will make 473 hp and 442 lb-ft of torque. That makes it more powerful than any M3 before it. It’s also the best six-cylinder M engine since the E46’s brilliant, atmospheric 3.2 liter unit.
If you’ve ever driven the new S58, you’ll know that the idea of pairing it with a manual transmission in a small, rear-wheel drive sedan is very exciting.
Another nod in the G80’s favor is its steering. Again, its steering setup will largely be borrowed from its standard 3 Series sibling, just with some of the M Division’s tuning. Having driven several G20 3er’s, I’m confident that the G80’s steering will be outstanding, as just the regular G20 3 Series has some of the best steering of any 3 Series generation. While it’s not as talkative as the E46, it’s better than the E92 and F30-gen’s steering. So I expect the G80 to be even better.
Combine all of that with the fact that it will likely look very good (though, we’re still waiting to see that new grille before making final judgement), will have a great interior and the best cabin tech of any M3 and you’ve got some potential for the G80 BMW M3 to become the best M3 yet. I know, it’s heretical claim any M3 could possibly be better than the E46-gen or *gasp* the E30 M3. But as far as an M3 that can be driven everyday, I think the G80 could become the best ever.
[Rendering by @avarvarii]
Until the CLAR based M2 Competion will arrive…
True, but that’s another 2-3 years
They better not ruin the M2, that’s literally at this point one of the only great BMW’s, and pretty much their halo car.
The G20 might have better steering than the F30, but the E90/E92? No way in hell!
I am still driving the E90, can’t let go of it.
I am with you on that point.
I have an F30 and and E39, and the F30 steering is dogshit compared to the E90.
I tell people that even my F90 doesn’t communicate with me as well the E90.
I once test drove the F30 hoping that I would love it but ended up disappointed, told the sales person that it felt “distant”.
The E90 steering is the best!
Probably because you have an electric rack in the E90? This series was built with hydraulic and electric steering racks.
My brother-in-law has an F30, and I honestly believe that my G30 has better steering feel even though both have electronic steering systems. Something about the F30 that just didn’t feel… quite there.
At the end of the day however, neither of them are anywhere near as communicative as the E60 steering (that my G30 replaced). I skipped the F10 entirely.
BMW M should be wise to offer 2 grille options. Not everyone likes the chinese beaver teeth grille design, which we saw recently on the M3 leak.
Let’s be honest, until BMW can start truly focusing on the enthusiast market and fix all of the complaints regarding their current vehicles *cough numb steering*, it likely won’t be “the best” but likely improved.
As of now I see a few issues with the G80
1) The S58 has well documented turbo lag
2) The car will likely be heavier and is on a larger wheelbase, making it more of a boat. Making matters worse, AWD will add even more weight.
3) If you want an auto, DCT’s are no longer available, only a ZF8.
4) They are pushing the limits of how much the RWD+Manual can handle with the stupid horsepower wars. Similar to the F10, this will likely be incredibly difficult to put the power down.
5) Beaver Grills/General Styling
6) Numb electric steering
This list sounds like you actually want a M140i.
Short wheel base, almost no lag B58, no silly styling, manual, reasonable weight.
Unfortunately the steering is like anything else in a BMW these days.
Pretty much, although being in the US, we sadly don’t get the hot hatch. My current favorite BMW is most definitely the M240i/M2C, which are essentially 1-Series coupes, and other than the steering are fantastic. Honestly the 2-Series is the new 3-Series in a sense.
Moot comment as no one has ever driven it. Most of these concerns can be addressed at least to some extent before release.
1) this can be addressed
2) i’m pretty sure it’s going to be lighter than previous gen as g20 is lighter than f30.
3) M5 proves that the M tuned ZF is hardly a step back vs DCT
4) Some people wants that, let them deal with it. At least the choice is available.
5) I have little hope for this one … but let’s see the final form before…
6) X3M steering is that bad ? I don’t think so and it should be improved somewhat on the M3 i suppose. I think it’s going to be better than F80’s steering anyway. Can’t complain on improvement vs previous gen can we ? Kidding, of course we can complain about anything :)
-G20 is actually heavier than the F30. There’s a whole thread with weight comparisons on Bimmerpost, despite BMW touting less weight, but they mostly meant for the platform/structure.
-Turbo lag most likely won’t be addressed, its noticeably present in the X3/4M and will likely stay that way in the G80 due to the engine and turbo’s design in comparison to the S55. BMW won’t likely do that many changes to it.
-The dual clutch is more engaging of an auto tranny. Many M3 owners are worrying that they’ll be losing it on the forums as the ZF8 while a great auto, still isn’t on the same level as a DCT.
-I’m glad we’re getting a manual, but I’m stating that I’m worried that they are possibly going to ruin the experience by adding too much power for it to handle, similar to the previous M5/6 which many reviewers claimed was too hard to control and that the manual didn’t work too well with all the power in comparison to the dual clutch.
-X3M steering is still meh, pretty lifeless, Cadillac and Alfa have figured out EPS, even some Merc’s and hell, even Mazda’s have more feel.
I’m just expressing my concerns for the car based on what we’ve heard so far. Never said I drove it, but based on the information we’ve been given and my experience in the X3/4M which I found to be disappointing, I feel that while I’m sure the car will be good, there are aspects as to which I am worried for in the production car. They could change, yes, but there’s a high likelihood that they won’t thus expressing my concern.
But respected journalists/reviewers were literally praising the X3M for how fun it is and I’ve heard some pretty good things about the steering, sure it could use some more simple tweaking to have even more infinite amounts of road feel. The X3M steering isn’t lifeless, it’s decent at best. Other than that, people found the X3M to be more fun and totally rocking for what it’s worth. People tend to expect hydro setups. Keep in mind, I stand for improvements in a brand, but to say that the X3M is lifeless isn’t right, when the car is a total beast in terms of driving experience and the transmission overall. Like I said the EPAS can use some more simple tweaking.
Gotta remember, not everyone is gonna like a vehicle just because the press has praised it. I’ve driven it and while it isn’t a terrible vehicle, in my opinion the competition just does many things better. I’d rather have a GLC 63 or Stelvio QF or Macan, but like I said that’s just my opinion, I just wasn’t impressed with the X3/4M when I drove it. Also I didn’t say the X3M was lifeless, I said the steering is what is lifeless as it lacks any feel that a Stelvio or Macan offers. The car in general is just okay in my opinion, not great, but gotta remember, just my opinion. And that’s what matters at the end of the day, not what a magazine thinks.
But I never said a vehicle has to be loved, just because the press loved it or whatever the reason may be. My main point was the X3M still holds its own and is exhilarating. BMW’s EPAS right now isn’t terrible, but I’ll admit isn’t world-class, but the steering is decent, FWIW. It still adds to the fun though. Bizarre yet tons enjoyable is what the X3M is.
There is no contest between ZF8 and DCT. DCT is much quicker to respond in manual mode than ZF8 in M5 or X3M. I’ve had extensive test drives of both models so I know.