Electric vehicles are often marketed as “emission free vehicles”, a catchy line that it’s being used across the industry and in most marketing slogans. But that statement might not be entirely true. A recent study quoted by Bloomberg shows that a highly efficient car like the BMW 320i can cause less pollution in certain areas of the world than a Tesla Model S.
How is that possible? Before answering that question, let’s take a look at the philosophy behind the i3 electric vehicles and its manufacturing processes. The i3 is made of CFRP which is manufactured at a plant that was built from the ground up to serve only this purpose, and that, in its turn, uses electricity provided by the nearby Moses Lake. This is likely one of the most eco-friendly manufacturing processes there is in business today.
Furthermore, the assembly lines in Leipzig for the i3 are also using solar and wind power by the plentiful, to make sure the impact the electric car has on the environment is as low as possible. That’s the holistic approach all manufacturers need to have.
But not all automakers follow a similar process. EVs are often cited as the cause of more CO2 emissions that conventional cars due to the way the electricity needed for their batteries is obtained. In Hong Kong, for example, more than half of the electricity provided to consumers comes from burning coal, with the remainder of 44 percent being split equally between natural gas and nuclear powerplants.
In this particular case, over 150,000 km (99,205 miles) a Model S would help release 4.4 more metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere, more than a BMW 320 after you take into account the carbon intensity of the city’s power generation and the production of the car battery, in addition to crude oil extraction, transportation and refining.
“Electric vehicles only make sense in countries where the carbon intensity of electricity generation is low,” wrote Neil Beveridge, a Hong Kong-based analyst at Bernstein in a report published Wednesday. “In Hong Kong, and more broadly China, electric vehicles are increasing rather than reducing pollution, with taxpayers effectively being asked to subsidize this.”
The situation is even worse in mainland China, where coal accounts for about 60 percent of the primary energy and where Elon Musk plans to gain a foothold in the near future. The CEO of Tesla is now looking for a production partner in the Asian country for its electric cars.
So while the final product – an electric car will always be more efficient than a conventionally-powered automobile – the road to get there might be less eco-friendly that one imagines.
People don’t buy electric cars for the environment, they do it for economical purposes. And let’s be honest, lots of people don’t really care about climate change, but more on the impact it has on their lives (barely livable summers, weird climate, natural disasters…).
If earth was self-destroying internally in a way we don’t feel it we wouldn’t do as much. That’s why we took so long to start pretending to do something.
How is a Tesla S economical? How many free charges to cover the list price?
but on the other hand Telsa 3 is cheaper than i3
If & when the Tesla 3 actually exists… Unless you mean imaginary cars are cheaper, can’t argue with you there.
I mean the Tesla 3 that was announced at 35000 and you can preorder. So far Tesla came out with every model they announced so I don’t quite understand why you call it imaginary.
They have presold in multiples of their entire historic production # for a vehicle that is at least a year away. They have produced 2 models in limited qualities.
It’s actually not really cheaper than the i3. See, while the Model 3 plays at home, the i3 is german. Foreign cars usually get a price bump, and this will happen in Europe as well.
For example, the Mustang that starts at 24k in your country (assuming you’re american), but begins at 37 500 € in mine. Some journalists have adjusted the 35k $ sticker price, considering the price bump taken by the Model S in pourcentage (not just raw number, doesn’t make sense since the car is twice the price), and the Model 3 should be over 40k.
Thing is, the i3 starts at 35k here in France. So you’ll more likely get less equipment (if the Model S has pretty poor cloth seats even on the P90D i don’t except much from base Model 3) for more money, with just more performance (doesn’t make sense on this segment, car looks like a fancy first gen prius), and more range (the i3 has 160km electric range, which is far from bad as far as i’m concerned).
I’m from Canada.
It’s a good point. Obviously European market is a different game altogether in terms of pricing. Tesla 3 has 350 km range according to the reports, which is better than i3. Naturally i3 has the gas engine where Tesla would rely on the infrastructure to charge. Today you can drive from Calgary to Vancouver in the Western Canada, but they are building more.
And in Canada it’s gonna be at least 45-48K. If you convert the US base S Model 70D is 76K converting that to Cd $97K but Tesla charge even more at103K…I guessed Tesla count on the US market first and Canada doesn’t really count
that sure depends on the exchange rate, also Canada has high subsidies for electric cars I think. Point being it’ll be cheaper than a beemer.
Subsidies will go away, you can’t predict the exchange rate, again you present conjecture as fact.
No Canada didn’t give a dime for EV only 2 or 3 provinces do. Speaking for Quebec where I live government says that it will last for at least 2020. As for the price point Tesla 3 will come cheaper (not by much) than a beemer3 if the battery comes from the gigafactory and not from Korea where those are taxes heavier…
Also there is not a world in which Quote: ” in addition to crude oil extraction, transportation and refining.” for regular gas burning cars would be less harmful than an electric car, i wish the media would stop spreading this lie.
http://i.imgur.com/wmKK0Lr.jpg
i do care about the environment and i’m a model 3 to be owner.
i do care about the environment and so i walk & take public transit.
you really think that those,almost empty half the time, huge buses don’t pollute?
They’re not half empty here in Toronto.
For Toronto of course but for the entire Canada is another story. Even in Montreal outside of the business hours it’s almost empty and it’s not because is cheap over here :-( Things may change tough because there is a big project for electric train (5B)
You’re right, public transit pollutes, get rid of it.
Good on ya
This article is promoting a flat out lie.
1) BMW 320i = MPG: Up to 24 city / 36 highway
2) Tesla Model S = MPGe 88 city / 90 highway
That means the BMW is using 3X the energy as the Tesla. I’m sorry, but over the course of 150k miles, the manufacturing of the Tesla does not use 3X the energy of the BMW.
I’m amazed that people who write about this issue don’t take two seconds to actually research what they’re writing about.
So I guess Bloomberg is wrong
Yes. The Bloomberg article is wrong.
It takes all of 2 minutes to find out that Neil Beveridge, the origin of this whole thing, is an oil and gas analyst based in Hong Kong.
http://www.oilandgascouncil.com/members/bio/neil-beveridge/senior-oil-and-gas-analyst/sanford-c-bernstein
Bloomberg? Is it the guy that want NY to forbid big glasses of soft drinks?
Have any Teslas made it to 150k miles? Will they?
What a weird comment.
It was a question, not a comment, according to Google no 150k miles Tesla exists (as yet). Longevity questions wrt new tech is to be expected.
Given that the Tesla S has only been in production for 3 years, and people generally only drive 10-15k miles/year, it’s expecting a little too much to see high mileage Teslas driving around.
But, this guy was at 120,000 miles as of last year, and there’s another article saying he now has 132,000. He’s probably pretty closes to 150k and apparently those have been trouble free miles.
https://www.teslamotors.com/customer-stories/what-it’s-own-model-s-long-term
Alert Consumer Reports! Maybe they’ll revise their Not Recommended. Then again, based on one car, probably not.
Meh.
You’re quoting CR?
Nope. That was not their position.
I work in manufacturing (not for Tesla) and being this is a completely new car company, meh, I would be more surprised if they had no problems.
At the same time, it’s worth noting that, because of the fact that it’s an EV it’s going to have fewer drive train related problems than other cars. Read the CR report of problems and they’re fairly nominal issues. Wipers, problems with the handle, etc. These are not recall level problems. They’re the inevitable problems for a new model car from a company that’s just establishing all their production system.
Being that they’re partnered with Toyota is a good thing. That they’re in the old NUMMI plant and have a lot of previous workers of NUMMI working for them is a good thing.
I have friends who own the Model S and they love it. The gripes are minor. But they say Tesla comes to their car where ever it’s parked to service it. They’re happy campers.
BMW are much worse, people are not even coping with runflats.
It’s not only about manufacturing the Tesla, but also how the electricity to run the car is produced. The article states that it all depends where the electricity comes from. I live in South Africa and 85% of our electricity is generated from coal, so this has to be taken into account when calculating the overall energy use of a car. What balances it out over here is that we produce about 20% of our fuel from coal as well.
If a country has a lot of renewable energy the Tesla will have a lot lower emissions than the BMW.
In the end I think the argument should be about what it costs you to run the car. And then they should not compare a 320 BMW to a Tesla that compares more to a BMW M3 in performance.
If you read the Bloomberg article to the end, and you will see this:
“Beveridge is a Hong Kong-based analyst who covers the oil and gas industry. He holds a long position in BP Plc, according to the report.” And doesn’t it click why he would publish such an article? And how is it fair to compare Tesla S with 320i and not 740i?
According to Mark Webb-Johnson at charged.hk:
“The report itself deliberately chooses the least favourable assumptions for EVs and the most favourable for petrol vehicles, in a blatant attempt to skew the results. For example, the use of HKE (Hong Kong Electric), rather than CLP (China LIght and Power) or some mix of the two, despite the fact that 70% of electric vehicles in Hong Kong are powered by CLP, and CLP generates 3/4 of all the electricity we use in Hong Kong. For example, the use of non-realistic non-real-world performance tests like NEDC for the comparison. For example, the accounting of pollution from making an EV battery pack, but ignoring the pollution from manufacturing the petrol vehicles’s engine, exhaust system, catalytic converter, ignition system, etc. And many more such examples.
For an independent view, just go to the US government’s http://www.fueleconomy.gov, choose a state with comparable fuel generation to Hong Kong, and then you can compare the figures for different types of cars for yourself. Or go to the Union of Concerned Scientist’s site for a comprehensive unbiased report.
The truth is that Electric Vehicles, even when powered by dirty coal, are still cleaner than comparable petrol vehicles today. In most cases the petrol vehicle pollutes 50% to 100% more than a comparable electric vehicle. An electric vehicle purchased today will get cleaner and cleaner in the coming years (as the power generation is improved), while a comparable petrol car will simply get dirtier and dirtier. The
electricity used to power an electric vehicle purchased in Hong Kong twenty years ago would today produce just 1/10th of the respiratory emissions compared to twenty years ago. Government proposals for the coming ten years will further reduce those respiratory emissions, as well as reducing carbon emissions by around 50%. Quite simply, the same cannot be said for a petrol vehicle.”
Complete bull!
It also should be noted that China is increasing solar power generation faster than any other country in the world, so the power mix used today (too much coal) is changing rapidly, year by year.
Considering the # of toxic air days they have, they better be.
This is such absolute bullshit, event if the electricity was produced with carbon, the footprint of an 80% efficient engine versus a 24% petrol or diesel burning one on top of the footprint of production and transport of oil, is simply no contest. Let alone if the electricity was made with renovables This is a hit piece by the PR départements of oil producers and gas guzzlers.
article on BMW blog about how a hybrid i3 is better for environment than a full electric Tesla. granted the article explains that it’s only true in some cities, but common, for real?
Pretty sure, when total manufacture is considered, BMW have taken awards over Tesla, also for connectivity.
connectivity is off topic here.
Yet you mention the Model 3? Which DOES NOT EXIST?!
it’s a CAR YOU CAN BUY ALREADY AND THEY HAVE WORKING UNITS. how’s that for capslock? moreover you seem to pretend to be dense: the topic is obviously pollution here, not connectivity. on top of that you’re spitting arguments about how Tesla made limited quantities of their cars while saying that BMW made 2 i models already. are you positive that i3 and especially i8 are selling any better?
Not only does the Model 3 NOT exist, NO ONE knows how long it will take to deliver their final pre-sale (or their first). i8 is best selling hybrid sports car, i3 have sold close to 50,000 units. Irrelevant wrt to Tesla, they compete in different segments, Tesla S is unique to the market.
Tesla isn’t unique: there is Volt, there is Leaf. Also it most definitely exists because they do have working units (the dictionary definition of existence). moreover, the sales of i8 and i3 wrt Tesla is entirely relevant in this conversation because of this: “They have presold in multiples of their entire historic production # for a vehicle that is at least a year away. They have produced 2 models in limited qualities.”
you directly mentioned the fact that Tesla doesn’t produce enough vehicles, implying that i-series are more prominent than Tesla vehicles. (unless you meant something else, but that’s how it reads in the context of the article).
The S is the only full size ev luxury sedan on the market, also the only Tesla to be produced in significant #’s, thus unique to the market, their price alone guarantees they will never be mass market vehicles, they are not being cross-shopped with Leafs or Volts. The article references the 320i, not the i3 or i8. Unlike many on this site, I do not compare Tesla & BMW, they compete in different segments. And if you think working units defines existence, you need to meet some existentialists.
I got a minor in philosophy along with my criminal justice degree. Few working units is existence in pure metaphysical and practical sense.
Very minor, as you cannot read, the article is about the ICE 320i, NOT the hybrid you keep referencing.
The Leaf maybe but the Volt if you take away is gas tank it wouldn’t go very far…
i3 is f…ugly and i8 is unique in his segment of the market.
No you can’t buy already a model3 you just reserve the right to order one in the future. I reserve one in Montreal on the 31st but I don’t buy it…yet.
It does actually “exist.” It’s just not in production yet.
I guess my def’n. of a car being something I can actually drive is too narrow.
Yes. That would be a narrow definition. There are lots of cars on this planet that you will never be able to drive.
Oh. So like the Tucker. The Bricklin. The DeLorean. And countless others.
Again, we quoted Bloomberg. We did not make this up. Did we check the source of Bloomberg’s report? No, we assumed they were fully vetted.
and the last paragraph of the article didn’t ring an alarm? let me quote:
“Beveridge is a Hong Kong-based analyst who covers the oil and gas industry. He holds a long position in BP Plc, according to the report. He has “market perform” recommendations on China’s biggest oil and gas producer, PetroChina Co., and Asia’s biggest refiner, China Petroleum & Chemical Corp. He’s ranked liquefied natural gas producers Santos Ltd., InterOil Corp. and Inpex Corp. as “outperform.””
Where Tesla are concerned, reality is irrelevant. On this ostensibly BMW site, the # of criticisms I’ve seen concerning their ev & hybrid product – which you can actually buy today, but are not selling in volume – while people sing the praises of hypothetical achievements from Elon & co? Not just weird, cultish.
cultish? you’re proposing that an electric vehicle is more of a pollutant than a hybrid, and you have audacity to call my behavior “cultish”?
Now you’re just misrepresenting me, never did I endorse the article. And my comment was directed at anyone who wants to argue a protype or pre-sales as actual vehicles, they are not.
You have a strange definition of “actual vehicle.” You can certainly say it’s not a “production vehicle yet.”
Fine. Get back to me when it is.
Unlikely to follow you around that long.
Exactly!
They could launch it tomorrow morning and I’d still not get back to you. It’s a statement representing my lack of interest in you.
no? “Pretty sure, when total manufacture is considered, BMW have taken awards over Tesla.” is that not saying that you think that hybrid vehicles are better for environment than fully electric ones? granted you’re saying it just took awards, but you do share that opinion, do you not?
No. In fact in a global record ICE sales year, EV & hybrid are statistically irrelevant. At best, they are our future. I just find it ironic that typists here diss BMW’s (real) achievement’s vs. Elon’s (hypothetical) ones. Thus my cult comment.
Yeah, well just 5 years ago there were people saying Tesla wouldn’t even get this far.
What I can’t figure out is, why didn’t BMW do what Tesla’s doing years ago? Why did the entire auto industry wait for someone else, from outside the industry, come along and do the right thing?
“the right thing”? We don’t even know it’s a sustainable thing, S is a 1%er car, let’s see if they can produce volume with 3. I guess in this century BMW were willing to settle for reviving Mini, Rolls, Range Rover & doubling their own volume to become global #1 premium brand, plus introducing i division & 1st mass production carbon fibre plant. Also, in our current OPEC glut, their ev’s & hybrids are just not selling in volume.
The “right thing” is making the commitment to making EV’s on a serious level. All those brands you just mentioned have put minimal efforts into their EV’s primarily because of the California market requiring it.
And, honestly, you don’t have to be a 1%er to buy a car that’s under six figures. You’re not going to buy one if you’re flipping burgers, but most people with good mid-management salaries can afford a Model S.
And OPEC, funny how 400,000 people were all ready to plop down $1000 to get in line for a Model 3 even when oil prices are historically low prices. It’s not about gas prices. The public wants a great EV!
My Mommy tells me it’s past my bed time, can we go back to when you were having a lack of interest in me?
oil prices are historically at low prices but you only speaking, I guessed’ for the US because here in Canada and all over Europe it’s still pretty high. Thank Big oil for that…
Gas today is less than half what it was in 2008, pre-crash. Thank Big taxes for some of that as well…
Now that I’m up again, I hope the public get their great EV, but it doesn’t exist yet. Electrification of vehicles is marginal, but global, not due to local state legislation, the biggest producer of hybrids is Japanese. Last year was a record sales year for the industry, EV sales were negligible, the public are not on board yet. Both Tesla’s are 6 figure vehicles here in Canada, nor widely available geographically. Also, as big, heavy, expensive, limited prod’n. vehicles I don ‘t see that they’re green beyond their drive train. Their market success is against other large, heavy, expensive luxury niche sedans or in markets where they are heavily subsidized. In terms of marketplace, BMW offer more green alternatives but they aren’t selling, as with the rest of the industry the ICE’s are selling.
Tesla 3 is not a hypothetical. How can you call a real existing vehicle a hypothetical? Do you know what a hypothesis mean?
Are you enjoying driving yours? Hypothetically, of course.
so if I don’t have it it’s a hypothetical car? good luck using electricity produced by the hypothetical powerplants you don’t own while watching a video of a hypothetical Bugatti Veyron that clearly does not exist because you don’t own it. while you at it go and deny the existence of the hypothetical ISS because you will never get to go there.
it’s not hypothetical. Many journalists and other try it on the night of the 31st of March and the final version will be for sure, technically, about the same…
Prototype is not production
also have a question: if you don’t think that a hybrid car is more environmentally friendly than an electric one, why did you feel necessary to state that “when total manufacture is considered, BMW have taken awards over Tesla” when I called the article out?
Irrelevant? And on the same line you write,they are our future…I think BMW wonder
I said AT BEST they are our future, do not selectively edit me.
They are the future if and only if, peoples are willing to change their ways. Charging each and everyday and planning for long trip will be a hassle for some but not for me as soon as my X3 lease is over in 9 months!
X5 hybrid? Model is coming to end of cycle, hybrids aren’t selling, could get a deal.
As a Canadian, I assume you’ve seen the lineups on the 401 just to get a coffee from Tim’s, the parking lots are FULL! So how do they juice their vehicles?
The i3 is EV not hybrid again you misrepresent me to make your specious argument.
Great that more people are realizing this,good work by BMW on all counts.
Is Tesla have credit for car sales in other countries?
#1 in Norway!
And they kept saying… “Those new guys have no clue. Their new technology can’t be better than years of traditional tech that we have honed. In fact, we did some studies that support us.”
How many times have we seen this argument for many facets of industry and tech. Nay sayers will try their best to withhold the disrupters… Oil producers better look at making hay while the sun shines, because the renewable revolution is just around the corner. Today it’s Tesla, Volt and Leaf. In 3 years, that is going to double with Porsche and others jumping in. 2 more years and you will see a doubling again. Moore’s law does not just apply to microprocessors…
I hope you’re right, before we consume ourselves off the planet. I’m just scepticle of people who type like the new guys have already achieved this. They have not. In fact, environmentally we may already be past the tipping point.
Wow, that was an amazing fable on how the BMW is less polluting than the Tesla. Do you know the one with the girl and the big bad wolf? Hold on let me get my milky.
Its all a nonsense, no-one with half a brain falls for the global warming, CO2 polluting bullshit. Still, much rather own a Tesla than be seen in a BMW. The ultimate Tw@t machine.
Our Chevy Spark EV is really a ZE as it says on the back of the car. Zero Emissions. If the car was made in West Virginia where electricity for manufacturing comes from coal fired plants, than it certainly does have a carbon footprint, along with all the other processes that generated Co2 when it was built. Guilty.
Now suck a big whiff of the air in, around, under, or near the car when it’s running and then do the same thing on the tail pipe of my friends’ Jeep Cherokee and tell me again, which one pollutes, please?
Our Chevy Spark 36 month 36,000 mile (maximum allowed) lease is almost up. Cost to drive; 22 cents per mile. Can anyone beat that?
No gasoline to buy, maintenance has been two tires and a wiper blade, even the electricity is mostly free for us. We charge the car at work or at one of the five public (free) stations within walking distance of our house. $219 month. $0 down, but I admit, Chevrolet had to refund the $2000 deposit due to malfeasance and incompetence so If I’d paid that the cost would be 5 cents per mile more, which is still very inexpensive. Not considered was a Bosch Level II charger worth about $600 that Chevy threw in, $2500 that California sent me, and the first month’s lease payment, that Chevy also paid, as they refunded the $2000 deposit.
[…] 330i and the 330e use a 2-liter four-cylinder petrol engines with different levels of power. The 320i is the least powerful here, having 184 PS at its disposal along with 300 Nm of torque. That should […]
[…] 330i and the 330e use a 2-liter four-cylinder petrol engines with different levels of power. The 320i is the least powerful here, having 184 PS at its disposal along with 300 Nm of torque. That should […]
[…] 330i and the 330e use a 2-liter four-cylinder petrol engines with different levels of power. The 320i is the least powerful here, having 184 PS at its disposal along with 300 Nm of torque. That should […]
[…] 330i and the 330e use a 2-liter four-cylinder petrol engines with different levels of power. The 320i is the least powerful here, having 184 PS at its disposal along with 300 Nm of torque. That should […]
[…] 330i and the 330e use a 2-liter four-cylinder petrol engines with different levels of power. The 320i is the least powerful here, having 184 PS at its disposal along with 300 Nm of torque. That should […]
[…] 330i and the 330e use a 2-liter four-cylinder petrol engines with different levels of power. The 320i is the least powerful here, having 184 PS at its disposal along with 300 Nm of torque. That should […]
[…] 330i and the 330e use a 2-liter four-cylinder petrol engines with different levels of power. The 320i is the least powerful here, having 184 PS at its disposal along with 300 Nm of torque. That should […]
[…] 330i and the 330e use a 2-liter four-cylinder petrol engines with different levels of power. The 320i is the least powerful here, having 184 PS at its disposal along with 300 Nm of torque. That should […]
[…] hybrids 330e. The 330e, the 330i and the 320i use a gas engines with unique levels of power. The 320i is actually the least powerful here, using 184 PS in its disposal along with 300 Nm of torque. That […]