Road and Track: M5 versus CTS-V
What do you get when you combine German driving skills with an American sport sedan? One rough andready American icon.
The CTS-V is just that. Where the regular CTS is blah, and, well, bleh… The V is a formidable effort of true German quality. It was born on the ‘Ring, and bread with an American V8. The CTS-V lapped the ‘Ring in a sedan record of 7:59. It has a 6.2L Supercharged V8, packing 556hp at 6100 RPM and 551lb-ft of torque at 3800 RPM. Keep these figures fresh in your mind… The CTS-V only weighs 4200/4300lbs, in manual and automatic trim.
The M5 is a car that we’ve had since 2005 to drool over. And I still do. Every time I see one, I still have to stop and look, or take a second look. I love the M5. I prefer the manual to the SMG, but that’s just me. The M5 still carries one hell of a punch with a Naturally Aspirated V10 that has 500hp at 7750 RPM and 383lb-ft of torque at 6100 RPM. The M5 also weighs in at just 4012lbs.
So, Road and Track got the two cars and took them to the Monticello Motor Club’s brand new, unfinished, 3.4 mile long track, that is still under construction. Bill Auberlen and John Heinricy were both on hand to drive the M5 and the CTS-V around the track. Bill Auberlen is a factory BMW driver, and is famous for racing the M3 in ALMS, and John Heinricy is head of GM’s performance division, and drove the CTS-V around the ‘Ring for its lap record.
Now, here we go. This is a very fair test. Where Road and Track, to me, has become a very slow paced magazine that can’t really test their cars to the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times that Car and Driver and Motor Trend can. But this time, they look up to the challenge. Unfortunately, do to the construction at the track, they could only track for an hour and drive so hard, as there was a lot of dust embedded in the track, and some water on the back side of the track in the shade. They got no chance to test the cars’ 0-60’s and 1/4 mile times against one another. That’s okay, because the track time tells a better story.
Both the Cadillac and BMW teams were there to watch it all go down. The CTS-V was a 6-spd manual, and BMW supplied an SMG and a 6-spd manual M5 for the test. Bill took the SMG. Keep in mind, John Heinricy has been the official test driver of the CTS-V since its inception. He is also a factory Chevrolet racing driver. Bill hasn’t touched an M5 in four years.
The CTS-V came out and drove a 2:47.55 after some warming up. The M5 ran a 2:45.96 after some test laps. Then the M5 comes in and finishes the day with a 2:44.70. The CTS-V then struggles to get the fastest total lap before they had to wrap up the hour long test. The V raced to 2:44.23.
See that? 2:44.70 for the M5 and 2:44.23. John has been driving the car for a few years now. Bill hasn’t driven an M5 in four years, and rips the V a new one… The CTS-V has 56 more hp, 168 more lb-ft of torque, and just shy of 200lbs heavier. The M5 is just slightly slower with less. Isn’t that funny. Remember, the CTS-V also develops its 551lb-ft of torque at 3800 RPM versus the M5’s 383lb-ft of torque at 6100 RPM. Oh, and the V gets its 56 more hp at 6100 RPM versus the M5’s 500hp at 7750 RPM.
I can’t wait until the next M5 comes out. Look out Cadillac, BMW isn’t far behind being the older dog in this fight.
You can read the full article and view all of the pictures at RoadandTrack.com.
Article by Josh from RawAutos.com
19 Responses
Julio
September 10th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
1wow, who ever thought…although like you said, the CTS is a great effort of American automakers
RawAutos
September 10th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
2@Julio: The CTS-V is. The regular CTS… Well, read the link I added for the CTS. I test drove it… Ugh, not a good car. I drive it every once in a while, and I find more things that I hate about it, haha.
Joe
September 10th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
3Honestly I love my M5 and wouldn’t trade it for the world - until a new one comes out :). Good effort by Cadillac but you really need to face it that the M5 is better in so many ways and speed is just one of them. They should be comparing this car to the M3 sedan.
Giom
September 11th, 2008 at 2:18 am
4Just amaizes me how competitors need to add bigger capacity engins to keep up with BMW - even a few years on.
If I was Cadillac, I wouln’t be proud of this outcome - their car should have anialated the BMW.
This is why we love our Beemers so:)
Mark
September 14th, 2008 at 10:22 am
5I just have to wonder if G=M/Cadillac has ever learned to put a decent interior in their cars???
RawAutos
September 14th, 2008 at 10:52 am
6@Mark: Well, in some cases the CTS has a pretty good looking interior. That is, if you get the nicer interior options…
Alan
September 27th, 2008 at 12:54 am
7the V is clearly the king. THE M5 CAN’T HANG AND EVERYBODY HAS SEEN IT!!!! Can’t keep up 0-60 or in the quarter mile. and the M5 is much more expensive. They say the cadillac driver has been driving the car for years, yet it’s not even being sold yet. Sorry BMW fans, but this one is obvious, the M5 just can’t hang.
RawAutos
September 27th, 2008 at 1:39 am
8@Alan: Oh, Alan, please, don’t hurt my feelings! Please… The M5 is 5 years old and still showing that it’s not that much slower than a CTS-V. The M5 really isn’t more expensive if you go for a used or CPO unit. Actually, you could probably pick an E60 M5 up for less money than a brand new CTS-V. But, let’s not forget that the CTS-V will be held in high demand and sold for the highest price… The CTS-V will hit the lots and sticker at $80,000 once the dealerships add their price hike.
Now, since you say the M5 can’t hang. 4.1s 0-60 vs a 3.9s for the V. The CTS-V has 556hp and 551lb-ft of torque vs the M5’s 500hp and 383lb-ft of torque. I would sure as shit hope that the CTS-V is faster…
But, wait, it’s not that much faster! Holy hell!?
Read the article again, read the actual Road and Track article. And once you’ve done some real research on these two cars, come back and tell me that the CTS-V is still king. I would love to see what happens when the 2011 M5 comes out. The Cadillac will be crying its silly American eyes out all the way to the finish line 10s after the M5 already finished.
You say everybody has seen it… Who is everybody?
RawAutos
September 27th, 2008 at 1:43 am
9@Alan: Read Giom’s comment “Just amazes me how competitors need to add bigger capacity engines to keep up with BMW - even a few years on.
If I was Cadillac, I wouldn’t be proud of this outcome - their car should have annihilated the BMW.
This is why we love our Beemers so:)”
Okay, let’s also compare another fact. John Heinricy has been driving the CTS-V for the past half decade or so now. Don’t you think that a man who created the car could do better than Bill Auberlen who hasn’t driven an M5 in 4 years? I would expect that. It just goes to show that the M5 is king in the sense that you can just hop in it and feel comfortable to keep pushing the limits. The car doesn’t have to be on sale for it to be test driven and raced… John has clearly been driving the car for years and is also the creator of the damn car.
Giom
September 27th, 2008 at 3:12 am
10Amen to Josh!
@Alan: If ‘hanging’ a car is all what it’s about to you… by all means, have your V.
@The rest of us: We just enjoy every aspect of motoring -especially a car like the M5. Every detail on this car is so thoroughly thought through and engineered that it actually is a no-brainer.
Anyhow… I’m just jotting out to my local cafe for a paper. “Boy how I wish I could hang the tail around the one and only corner…
Alan
September 27th, 2008 at 9:59 am
11The CTS-V has recorded 1/4 miles at 12 seconds flat (check cadillac website) and cadillac has even claimed that it has done it in under 12 seconds. You all say oh well it has a bigger engine, but who’s fault is it that Cadi made a bigger engine for a car that’s $30,000 less? And the M5 does roughly a 12.5-12.7 1/4 mile so yes, that means it can’t hang. I do love the M5 and BMWs are clearly the best handling sedans, but having had a 5 series and the new CTS, believe me when I say that handling is the only advantage. Does BMW have a hard drive in the car? Does it have tivo for the radio? NO. But what it does have are uncomfortable seats and a terrible navigation system. So please tell me again why I would choose an overpriced BMW over Motortrend’s car of the year?
Alex S
September 27th, 2008 at 10:47 am
12I totally agree with Alan. Cadillac has out done itself with this one. Not only will this spank the new M3 but clearly the M5 is blown out of the water. After owning an extremely uncomfortable M5 I will be trading in for this bad boy. I am sad to part ways with my beloved BMW but the time has come and a superior automobile has arrived.
Save your EUROS and buy AMERICAN which is clearly superior!
RawAutos
September 27th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
13@Alan: Haha, after knowing what it’s like to have 5ers and a 2008 piece of crap CTS in the garage, trust me, I would know much better than you what it’s like for both. The 5-Series is far better at handling, driving, better stereo, iDrive is more fun, seats are more bolstered and more comfortable, better gas mileage, better speed, more fun on any road, better iPod connectivity, and the list goes on. I’d love to have you drive both for a week or more and then tell me that the CTS is really the better car. The CTS is the most uncomfortable piece of shit I’ve ever driven. And I drive it quite a bit since it’s my father’s car…
The new CTS harddrive is useless. I don’t see why this gets people so excited.
The looks of the CTS are even bland… They look good from a distance, and then you get closer and you see the car looks like plastic and made cheaply. The interior isn’t anything special in comparison, the seats are HORRIBLE! The steering wheel is the most awful thing I’ve ever used to drive with. The steering goes where you want, but the transmission sucks, the brakes are either REALLY on or not there at all. You can’t modulate the brakes to be comfortable when stopping. You are either slamming on them, well, nothing.
The engine isn’t as nice as I expected. The car is just plain and simple useless.
The CTS-V is a much different car. It looks great, I’m sure it drives great, but that steering wheel and the interior are still a huge drawback. I would never buy the CTS-V simply due to that horrible feeling steering wheel. I can’t fit my hands around it at 9 and 3.
I’ve seen the CTS-V’s information, I know what it does. It’s quick as hell! But I would really, really hope so with the amount of power coming out of a 6.3L Supercharged V8. The M5 will make just as much power and still be the better car in its next iteration. It’s not even that much slower now… It may be a bit slower in a straight line, but look at the numbers, it almost had the Caddy.
CTS-V: 2:44.23
Bimmer: 2:44.70
That’s hardly enough to make me sell my M5 and go for a CTS-V. And you bring up the price point, again. You are just like all of the GT-R kids. You bring that up every chance you can. You won’t be able to find a CTS-V for sticker. Won’t happen.
RawAutos
September 27th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
14@Giom: I agree, BMW has researched the M5 to be a great all-round car. That’s just what it is. It’s always been the tops in those terms. It’s still shocking to me that it took 2 generations of an M5 until Mercedes finally had an AMG to compete, and that even wasn’t anything by comparison. The best competitor to the M5 was the RS6. And still, you couldn’t even get that in a manual… The 1st generation CTS-V was fantastic! As long as you weren’t listening to the squeaks, the differential breaking, and also as long as you weren’t driving long distance. Other than that, the car was a hell of a lot of fun to drive, and so very quick. It was a great American sports saloon. But then again, you could still buy an M5…
Alan
September 28th, 2008 at 5:39 am
15rawautos: I’m not sure how you would know much better than me, considering I owned a used 530i (which I returned after 9 months) and my mother has a 545i, and I’m currently driving a CTS. The 530i was a complete piece of crap, probably because it was first generation though, but I have noticed through not only mine but my parents and friends’ experiences that BMWs for the most part tend to have a whole lot more problems than Cadillacs. My father has had four cadis with 0 problems, and I’m on my second one now I’ve yet to even service either one as the salesman assured me I would have no problems and he was absolutely right. The 545 drives nice, but BMWs are just too damn stiff for me, they handle great but I prefer Cadillac’s old man smoothness on the road, seeing that I drive in the city and I’m not a race car driver so I prefer comfort. The seats in the regular 5s are more comfortable than those of the M5, yet still not nearly as comfortable as the Cadi. They feel smaller and less cushioned and in my opinion are no match for the seats on the CTS.
Now, you claim that the 5 is faster. This is true, except for the 528 of course. The 535 is only slightly faster to 60, but would probably take the CTS by a second to the 1/4 mile. And the 550i is a beast, but just way too overpriced as are all the 5 series. I just personally don’t see the point in paying more for less.
528i (0-60 in 6.5) = MSRP $45,500
535i = $51,000
550i = $60,000
What i payed for my CTS, 3.6 liter DI with sports package and 40g hard drive: $36,000
And as for the gas mileage, the CTS gets better mileage than the 535 or the 550
CTS DI: 18/26
535: 17/26
550: 15/23
Explain that one to me again please because last time I checked 18 was more than 17 and 26 was more than 23. I guess you can say it’s simple math. And the best part is, the CTS runs on regular fuel.
The 40 g hard drive is great because you save your cds onto the car and guess what? You never have to pop in another cd again. No need to keep cds in the car and no need to continuously switch cds while you’re driving. Personally, I think it’s great and I think every car should come with it. Oh, and by the way, that eliminates your need for the IPOD, though you can still connect it if you wish. And BMW still has no tivo for the radio, which allows to to even playback the radio when you’ve been out of your car for an hour.
I don’t really find the iDrive any fun, but that’s personal opinion and you are clearly biased towards BMWs. I have no personal favorite car company, I simply go with whatever car gives me the most for my money, in this case, the CTS.
You clearly prefer the stiffness of the BMW, which I find rather useless considering that once again, I drive in the city to work and back and not on a race track. The interior on the BMW is mediocre, but definitely not worth more than $35,000. It’s the same interior as the 3 series! They all look the same on the inside and they even have the same boring speedometer! Cadillac offers a nice red needle with a blue backgroung that looks great at night, and even leaves the driver with the option of the digital dash, like the Porsches which I personally love.
What it comes down to is personal preference, but the way I see it, why pay so much more for a more bland interior and a stiffer ride? At least through my experiences, the BMWs have proven to have several problems (nothing is worse than my Jaguar experiences though) and a mediocre interior for a much higher price. Cadillac has me hooked for now, but again, I drive any car that’s comfortable and treats me well.
Now, for the Nissan comment, please don’t go there. The fact that people consider paying that much money for a Nissan is just absurd. Nissan’s are by no means bad cars, however, they’re just Nissan’s! Nothing special just another Japanese car. And as for Mercedes, I just don’t think they even compare to Cadi or BMW. My father had an E320 (stiff piece of shit) and the newest ML drives awful. My sister’s Volvo XC90 drives much better than that overpriced crap, though the Volvo does drive well.
simon
October 6th, 2008 at 9:27 am
16CADILLACS ARE OLD PEOPLES CARS AND THAT CTS V IS ON UGLY PIECE OF SHITE GET ME AN M5 ANY DAY OF THE WEEK
john
November 6th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
17RawAutos, you biased little sucker, the CTS-V won!, read the entire article.
john
November 6th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
18BTW, doesn’t matter if it is by an inch, or by a mile, winning is winning and the CTS won. The rest, nobody cares.
Thomas
November 19th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
19You can see this video here
http://www.youtube.com/user/JazelAuto1
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