2010 M3 CSL

BMW M3 | July 16th, 2008 by 19

Horatiu reported today that the M3 CSL would be arriving for sale in 2010. There are some key details that he went over with the …

Horatiu reported today that the M3 CSL would be arriving for sale in 2010. There are some key details that he went over with the 470hp, more extensive use of Carbon Fiber, and of course, the added performance. He quoted a 4.5s 0-60 time. That is a very reasonable number. BMW claims a 0-60 time of the current M3 at 4.7s. Of course we all know that a new E90/E92 M3 will do 4.1s to 60. If you didn't know that, now you do.

A new CSL would no doubt launch to 60, in my non-expert opinion, of about 3.4-3.7s, all depending on the transmission. 

2010 M3 CSL
If the CSL sheds a few pounds (200 according to the article), this would benefit the CSL greatly, meaning that the M3 would go from 3,704lbs to 3,504lbs. That means that BMW will do just like they did with the E46 M3 CSL and strip the radio, air conditioning, and automatic seats, all while making the trunk floor and trunk lid out of cardboard and plastic. Let's take another thing into consideration. The M3 CSL will likely only recieve the M-DCT as the transmission. This is a safe guess since the older M3 CSL only came in SMG II.2010 M3 CSL

The M-DCT is supposed to knock 0-60 times down by .2-.3s. That is a lot just because of the transmission. We must all take into consideration that so much more than power goes into making a car a sub 5.0s performer to 60. Just aerodynamics alone can make a car shed a tenth or two to 60… The old SMG tranny didn't so much take the 60 times down as much as it just helped to control the car better around the track, particularly the Nürburgring. The E46 M3 CSL successfully lapped the 'Ring in 7:50 dead. That is 15 seconds faster than the E92 M3 and .01 slower than the Porsche 996 911 GT3. Interesting, I say. 

If the M-DCT does for the E92 CSL what it does for the regular M3, we should be in for a treat. I would still rather have a traditional manual offered for when I drive on the street. I know that the paddle shift technology is exceeds anything the best driver could ever do with a manual, but for the street it is so much more gratifying, I think. 

2010 M3 CSL

There are two main questions, at least in my head as a BMW enthusiast, will the CSL be sold in America? The original E36 M3 'CSL' or 'Lightweight', as it is technically called, was offered in America (The Lightweight E36 M3 was advertised as the 'Lightweight', but was called the CSL by BMW AG. CSL actually translates to "Coupe Sports Lightweight", so either is correct), but the E46 CSL was not. The second question I have for BMW is, will there be an E90 M3 CSL? Probably not, I'm guessing. It is highly possible that the M3 CSL could be offered in America, especially since people have warmed up to paying $70,000 for the regular M3. Remember, the U.S.A. is the largest BMW market, and the largest for BMW ///Motorsport… 

The last thing is the cost. The report has the cost at roughly $140,000. This makes sense as it is twice the cost of a fully loaded M3. I doubt that it will be that high, though. Expect the M3 CSL to compete heavily with the 997 911 GT3/RS and the Nissan GTR/GTR V-Spec. The GT3 costs $107,500 base with the RS being $124,900. So expect the price to be dropped in the middle of that. I'm guessing about $114,000, which is a little less than what I've seen brand new GT3's go for at a dealer lot. I don't mean to toot my own horn here, but, when I guessed the E90/E92 M3 pricing before it ever came out, I was correct. While all of my friends were saying $65,000 base, I said no more than $55-56,000 base. I was correct. The only reason I was thinking more logically is due to the fact that BMW knows they can't get away with selling an M3 for that much, they would still sell like hotcakes, but BMW wouldn't meet its worldwide goal of 100,000+ M3's sold. The E46 M3 sold a little over 90,000+ units worldwide. 

My M3 CSL prediction is this: Price: $114-120,000, Horsepower/Torque: 475hp/323lb-ft of torque, 0-60: 3.5s, Top Speed: 191 MPH, 'Ring time: 7:34.3. Also expect a full Alcantera interior, from seats, steering wheel, headliner, shifter, e-brake, so on and so forth. 

Just so you have a little reference on how good the CSL was in E46 guise, here is the Top Gear test of the E46 M3 CSL.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUwjezcyAlA[/youtube]

Article by Josh from RawAutos.com

Photos taken from: E36 M3 CSL- BMW M Registry, E46 M3 CSL- E90Post

'Ring lap times borrowed from: RawAutos Forum

  • Benny

    3.4-3.7? Never ever.

  • http://www.rawautos.com RawAutos

    Ah, watch out Benny. I quoted 4.1-4.3s for the new M3 to all of my friends. I was laughed at, outcasted, etc. etc. They are now eating their words…

    Engine technology has grown so much in the past 5 years that cars with 300hp are now doing 5.0s to 60. That would be the 3700lb 535i, for instance.

  • Benny

    Well, Mercedes claims a 3.9 0-100 km/h for their new SL65 Black Series. Of course, this car has a lot more weight and so on, but I don’t believe something as low as 3.7 0-60 for a M3 CSL. Despite the *fact*, that there won’t be a CSL. But even if BMW would bring a CSL it would not be that fast.

  • BMW

    0-60mph 4.1 for E92? its the first time ive come across that.HHow about some proof on dat?articles,legit stats etc..im nt arguing dat its not possible,i jus want proof dat it is:)

  • http://www.rawautos.com RawAutos

    BMW, http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/2008_bmw_m3_vs_2008_lexus_is_f_comparison_test+page-3.html

    There is the stats on the 4.1s 0-60.

    Benny,

    Mercedes-Benz’s are not as quick off of the line due to the abundance of torque that they have. Plus, the factory always downrates performance as to not look silly when no one can best that 0-60 time. BMW says the M3 only gets to 60 in 4.7s, where as everyone else tests 4.5 and lower… Mosts are between 4.1-4.4.

    Why do you say that there won’t be a CSL?

    The M3 will probably be faster than the SL65 AMG BS.

  • Benny

    The M3 CSL might be faster than the SL65 BS, but only to a specific speed. And if you compare the cars on the Autobahn and accelerate from 80 km/h or from 100 km/h or something like that the M3 will just and only get destroyed.
    There won’t be a CSL, because everyone who is near or inside BMW knows that there won’t be a CSL. If you read interviews with managers they always say that there won’t be a CSL. And, most important, there are no spy-shots or anything like that of a CSL around, because there a no CSLs testing. I would bet 50$, but since I don’t have Dollars here in Germany I can’t ;-)

  • http://www.rawautos.com RawAutos

    Benny, inside sources will say what they want… There has always been some type of CSL, whether it be the Lightweight E36 M3 or the Evo E30 M3. It is a tradition that BMW make a top M3 model. Maybe it will be called something else, maybe the Sport Evolution name will be brought back into light. Who knows? All I know is that there will be some type of CSL M3. There has to be. BMW will not let its guard down when trying to be the best. The GTR is ruling the world, and BMW and Porsche are the only ones that can topple that tower.

    On the SL65 AMG BS, the AMG engines are some of the strongest in the world, no doubt. You are correct that on the Autobahn the BS would slaughter an M3 CSL. The AMG engines build speed monstrously, so much more than most. But keep in mind that once the turns come in, bye, bye AMG, hello CSL! Mercedes-Benz doesn’t have what it takes to out drive BMW and/or Porsche. Hell, MB is having a hard time showing Audi who’s boss. That should say something right there.

    But you can’t really bring a $300,000+ wanna be supercar into the mix, especially when a real super car can cost half as much and produce more fun. Look at the F430 Scuderia. Same price, much larger performance. The AMG cars just won’t be what they want to be until they borrow either a proper manual from Pagani, or start making less GT attitude cars and more race minded cars. That’s why BMW makes the CSL…

  • Benny

    I’m still not with you ;-) I agree, that AMGs are only fast on the straights, although the Black Series models seem to be fast too. Not on the level of a CSL, but the CLK63 BS lapped the Hockenheimring in the same time as the M3 E92. And I don’t think that Mercedes does not have what it takes to compete with BMW M, they just speak to other customers. If they would like to they could easily build a car faster than the M3. And in the same manner BMW could easily build a car faster than the M3. The question is if the market for a purist race-car is big enough to bring in the costs of development. And that is exactly why AMG and Audi RS are building cars, that are fast mainly on the straights. It is what most customers ask for. There may be people like us in internet-blogs and boards who really like the idea of the M3 CSL or the Lotus Elise, beeing light and fast around corners, but obviously there are more people who just want to have power power power on the straights.
    I do agree with you that there will be some special edition of the M3. However it will be called, I bet that it won’t be as complex or as fast as the E46 M3 CSL. The time the old CSL made on the Nordschleife is fabulous, as you know it is in the league of Lamborghini Murcielago and so on. To build a car on the basis of the E92 that would be even faster is indeed possible. But they won’t build one, simply because the costs of development would be very high and only a few people buy an M3 CSL if they can get a Porsche GT3 for the same kind of money. That is why a CSL would have to be cheaper than a GT3, and I mean not by 1-3 thousand Euros. And that is why BMW would not make much money with it, if they would earn money with it at all.
    So, to sum it up – special edition: yes. E46-CSL-competitor: no.

  • http://www.rawautos.com RawAutos

    I agree and disagree. I don’t think that MB could ever make a car faster than a BMW, only because they forgot how, I think.

    The CSL would actually translate to a better business decision than not. Let’s break it down and think about it. Volkswagen spends an average of $3+ Million making one Bugatti Veyron, then they turn around and sell it for $1.3 million. Why? Because the technology is so advanced they can use it for future cars. The technology is already getting cheaper and more readily available.

    If BMW builds a tii, CSL, Lightweight, Evo, Sports Evolution, or some sort of top dog M3, it would have to be like the E46 CSL. It would translate to more money down the road for them. Essentially, cars like the CSL are rolling Research and Development cars that are sold to the public. This makes a larger profit for BMW later when they use that technology in a standard F-Series M3… They are building the tii 1er and 3er to gain knowledge on new, better, and lighter technology to start implementing into their stock road cars.

    Car companies have been doing this for years. Plus, even if they build the CSL, there will probably only be about 500 or so made for the European market, and if they do bring it to the U.S. we will still only get about 200 or so… Even though the U.S. has proven to be a much larger market for ///M cars. The demand in the States for a CSL is so high that customers would likely pay $200,000 for one. You would be surprised. Hell, if the demand wasn’t so high for race bred machines MB wouldn’t get away with the CLK63 AMG Black Series over here and in your neck of the world, as well. People want these kinds of cars, and they will pay anything for them.

  • Benny

    I don’t think that light cars are that much of a technological innovation, the materials are all existing and if the customers would still buy it for the price that would be the result even a 5-series could be around 1000 kg with F1-technology and a massive use of carbon fiber. But only very few people would buy a 5-series with 1000kg if they can get a Merc E-class with 1800kg for half the price. So there is not so much testing necessary, all the things concerning weight can be tested in a laboratory. But it is very expensive to build really light cars. Well, we will see ;-) I still don’t think that the special version of the E92 M3 will be faster on the ring than the E46 M3 CSL. But we will see :) I would love to see a CSL and I would also be ready to pay a lot of money for it (if I had it) but I don’t think that the market is big enough to bring in the costs of development. Well, you brought the Veyron as an example. Of course, the Veyron is special, because it is THE car trying to show what is possible, it is not about beeing useful at all, not even for the company. Volkswagen wanted to show what they are able to do if they put in everything they have. BMW or Mercedes or any other big car manufacturer could have done that too but they did not think that it was necessary to boost their image. That’s all. The Veyron is all about image. And of course a BMW M3 CSL would also be good for BMWs sporty image, but, like I said before, since all my sources say unanimously that there won’t be a E92 CSL I can not imagine that there will be one.
    Concerning Mercedes: They are still active in some racing series, like the DTM and of course Formula 1. Any big manufacturer could build a car that is faster than a stock-M3. Maybe not on the base of their regular cars, but if they would like to build a car with the only target to be faster than a M3, it would be easy work for them. Look at Nissan if you need proof ;-) Its just about the amount of money you want to invest. If you don’t have people good enough, you can buy them from any company you want, just a question of money ;-) The stock M3 is nowhere near what BMW can build if they want to. Even a CSL would not be anywhere near that. The basis is a 3 series Coupé. If BMW would like to build a car as fast as possible, it would not be based on a 4-seater, it would be a car just and only made for this purpose. Most likely not with a front-engine-layout.

  • Horatiu B.

    Guys, love your comments, you should use all these ideas in a kick ass article, MB vs M3 CSL etc..

  • http://www.rawautos.com RawAutos

    Benny, light cars are an innovation these days due to stricter rules and laws on safety and MPG’s. Here in America, I’m not sure about Europe, so much, the cars are growing heavier and heavier due to very strict rules on crash test ratings. Cars that were once 2800lbs are now, unfortunately, coming in at 3200-3300lbs, due in part to new luxuries, but more with safety. In America, the lawmakers seem to think that the bigger the car the safer the car… Now they want better gas mileage, so they are yelling at automakers for making such fat cars. Hmm…

    It is expensive to build light cars, this is why the M3 CSL will bring new weight saving measures and advancements to BMW that they would only use for such special models. The CSL will help showcase the new weight saving materials that they can make more readily available on cars like the M5 and M6 that are due out in 2011-2012.

    I used the Veyron as an example to what VW plans to do. The Veyron has brought about new technology that they can now patent and use in lesser cars in the next 5-10 years. This was brilliant marketing on their part. The Veyron is actually a very useful and liveable super car. That is why VW produces it at such high cost to them. The money that they will make back from that car by making that technology cheaper and more readily available to their Passat, Golf, Passat CC, Tiguan, Jetta, Taureg, etc. etc. Imagine the technology in 7 years being used for the R-Series special sports cars from VW… Think about the advancements Audi will take from it for its RS cars… The sky is the limit for VW coming up, and that’s why they did it.

    Your sources may be right that there won’t be a CSL. Have they said there won’t be a special M3?

    DTM is something so dull that BMW won’t get into it… MB and Audi beat up on one another. It is a cool racing series, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not F1, Le Mans, or something of that caliber.

    I agree that anyone can make a car to topple the M3, but that’s beside the point. MB can’t make a car that could even promote the same success. How many name MB’s have tried to keep up with the M3 over the years? Let’s see, they had the 190, which turned into the C-Class. They have had some form of AMG or highly modified version of each car to compete… BMW has produced 1 M3 and evolved the car from there. The only other company that has had that sort of success is Audi with the S/RS4.

    I agree that an M1 style BMW would be the ultimate made BMW, it wouldn’t be the M3. The M3 has just been the testing bed for new, better stuff that people will buy. The CSL had a CF roof, now the M6 and the M3 both have it… The new M5 will probably get some sort of CF style roof.

  • BMW

    thanks for the stats R.A…i have to agree that der wil be a special edition E 92 m3.especially taking into consideration that a new RS4 RS5 watevr is on its way..the special edition wil be launched especially to blits the audi…and unintentionally everything else:)wat do u think?

  • http://www.ineedaradiator.com addtothehustle

    All I know is that the CSL is going to be a sick car, wish i could afford it.

    ONE DAY

    http://www.ineedaradiator.com

  • julian

    well i am really confused buy your comments who told you america was the biggest market for bmw motosport which is wrong in fact its europe also the car will most probly not be released in america as bmw only produce around 3000 units and there is already a waiting list in europe which requires around 4000 units i myself have taken 33 orders for the new bmw csl as i buy them in the uk and supply parts for the old ones

  • http://www.rawautos.com RawAutos

    @julian: Just because Europe gets all the good ///M stuff doesn’t mean they are the largest market. BMW largest market, according to BMW reps and execs is America, and that includes Motorsport. Why do you think they offer the manual in the M5 and M6 only in America?

  • http://www.rawautos.com RawAutos

    @BMW: I agree. BMW will always be ahead of the curve in some form or fashion, but I think they will step it up and make something that none of the others can touch. The M3 CSL/Evo, whatever it will be called, will definitely bring the GT3 RS element to BMW that they have been missing for far too long.

  • Artmic

    i’d never pay double for a stripped down car, BMW must be nuts to ask for double :)

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